RJG November 11, at 4: CC — I have never once said that I think loafers and suits are appropriate aside from casual, cotton suits. Marci May 18, at 7:
I think the graphic in the article is part of this tendency to put down those with liberal arts degrees. Introduced by Brooks Brothers in , they were patterned after the shirts of polo players and were used exclusively on sports shirts until the s in America. It is still considered a more sporting style, and, particularly outside America, traditionally dressed men still do not wear suits with this style of collar.
I do not doubt that a button down shirt is not the most formal shirt, but to say it is not a suit appropriate shirt is a stretch. Look at what is actually worn by real people and not what is talked about on the internet and in fashion magazines emphasis on fashion.
At this point I have no idea. I very much doubt that they are abiding by all of these rules handed down to us from fashion writers. Comments made above about the liberal arts would lead one to conclude that western literature and civilization are only considered valuable if the protagonists are straight white males.
If other points of view are included it means the liberal arts have gone downhill and are no longer worth studying. I take a different view. The point of a liberal education should be to study and learn about those things that are most valuable and illuminating in respect of the human condition, irrespective of the skin pigmentation, gender or sexual orientation of the writer, composer, painter, mathematician, etc.
We demean the very foundation of human achievement when we look to such factors as a basis to levy a kind of pre-judged value on the work of its creator.
I agree with A. Mason about the aim of a liberal education. Today such a course is impossible and eighteenth-century women writers are justly prized. Virginia Woolf says the same thing a century later.
In any case, S. Do you have yours on? These days the first three are interviewing for burger-flipper jobs. The interviewer is the liberal arts major who got a head start on working up the fast food chain. White males are after all those the ones who have given the most to civilization, with a few obvious exceptions of course. Even with a tux which is taking things too far, I admit. Do we really need ObrienCare? I like the button down collar. I think men look best with it around their neck.
It lends distinction to not so nice necks and elegance to nice necks. It is a strong look. It is a prestigious look.
Why not a button down with a tux? All that tying and knotting and buttoning kinda really tucks one in like a military bedsheet. I will encourage the formal BD option. It is a worthy exploration. I would also like to explore whether the often cited BrksBrthrs and JPrs and notable others even know what heckles they are doing.
They are salesmen for petesake and are capable of taking the strangest viewpoints and directions in hopes of moving a weak offering. Retailers are fishing for men, and trying to see what bites or even nibbles in this current emerging mega digital economy. The retailers are like ObrienCare, they make little laws out of suggestions and demand we follow.
Anyhoo, sorry for long wind passing. I know its getting stinky in here. Can somebody start a club where I can come join for drinks in my BD formal get up please?
Seriously, a button-down collar is a great look, but a casual one, and is simply inappropriate with semi-formal and formal clothes of which the only one a modern man is likely to wear is the tuxedo. Heck, wear your tuxedo to church, or to work.
Be the best-dressed man on the bus! Almost no one will notice, or care about, the style of your shirt collar. OCBD with a blazer, slip on loafers, and repp tie; pinpoint spread or point collar with suits, lace-up shoes and always when wearing a bow tie. It certainly has an important place in my wardrobe and that of many American men. Cherry picking the internet and finding pictures of old men in suits and OCBDs has nothing to do with this discussion at all.
I can just as easily find famous men wearing spread collar shirts. Solid light pink spread collar shirts are rebellious? Was it worn commonly years ago as formal, business wear? Perhaps it was — it was a trend to do so…. If you want to dress like an antique or a romanticized version of Take Ivy , go right ahead. Young guys wearing OCBDs with suits today look like old fashioned Poindexters playing dressup or hipsters who stumbled upon the J. PressxUrban Outfitters rack not unlike the young guys that start wearing bow ties too early….
An OCBD is the easiest and least fetishy thing that can be worn. And it is not just Brooks who sells them. Non button down collar shirts have been around, esp as formal wear, in this country and many others, for far, far longer than OCBDs.
Crew, America Eagle, etc. My issue is with them making the rather forced jump to formal, business suit attire. Every day you reached in you closet, out came the suit. Days when you were primarily at your desk, very little internal or external exposure on that day or week. Hence, many a proper dresser, eased into OCBD and loafers with, the suit. I see nothing wrong with wearing a button-down with a tie, I think they look sufficiently smart!
Judging by their graphic, is any type of collar acceptable?! Your evidence is anecdotal, and cherry-picked.
Style is what I wear. Button-down is the essence of business, Britain be-damned. I am, no doubt, weighing in far too late. I wear them with my old school Burberry blazer with the burnished Prorsum buttons, too.
Besides, this is not a secret. Absolutely nonsense from GQ, forever leading the sheep off the cliff. I am English and have always worn a white button-down to every job interview of mine and got every job. It annoys me when magazines publishes stuff like this. In the first reference, they are specifically speaking about an oxford cloth buttondown. This type of buttondown is NOT a dress shirt.
You should not ever wear them with a nice suit. A buttondown can be made in either a dress shirt or oxford. The shirts are made of a totally different material and have a different feel. I find myself agreeing with Marci.
A broadcloth shirt with a buttondown collar, or even a pinpoint oxford would go quite nicely with a suit. Depends completely on the suit and tie. A button down oxford shirt worn with a natural shoulder sack suit and repp tie is about as Ivy as it gets. Later, one can learn the exceptions. For example, an Oxford cloth button down shirt with a seersucker suit seems far better than a dressy spread collar shirt that is better worn with a worsted wool suit.
Once you know them, then you can break them—but only if you can give both the rule and a good reason to break it. No Oxford cloth button down shirts with suits. Wearing an Oxford cloth button down shirt pays homage to the style and more casual look. When men argue about the appropriateness of clothing do they not realize that they are not wearing a frock coat with a top hat? Definitely worth bookmarking for revisiting. I surprise how so much attempt you put to make the sort of great informative website.
I would never wear it with a suit. I wear it with a sport coat and slacks, or sportcoat and khakis. I also wear it without a tie.
Well, this is something interesting, This is not a style treason i must say. You can check out here http: Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email.
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed. Its purposefully nonchalant roll acts as a counterpoint to an otherwise sedate outfit and tends to give the impression of dressed-down and approachable respectability; figuratively as well as literally, it softens the stiff edges of the appearance… It is the most American of collars, and its intent —which is also the great virtue of American clothing generally — is to relax the appearance, to bring a touch of dishabille to the formality of business garb.
Click to share on Facebook Opens in new window. Grumble Your first mistake was reading GQ. Your second mistake was taking them seriously. Christian November 10, at 2: Duke of Windsor November 10, at 2: Steve November 10, at 3: Alan November 10, at 3: Christian November 10, at 3: Southern Loafer November 10, at 4: Teardrops on my keyboard…. November 10, at 4: These shirts would look best in Royal Oxford. Regular OCBD fabric looks too casual.
RWK November 10, at 4: SartoriallyCavalier November 10, at 4: Squeeze November 10, at 5: Dan November 10, at 5: James November 10, at 6: Mike November 10, at 7: JPS November 10, at 7: Anonymous November 10, at 8: Tuco November 10, at 9: M Arthur November 10, at Enter casual Friday…and that is when the decline began…. Platt November 10, at AEV November 11, at 9: Christian November 11, at 9: These will help you find your way back to planet earth: Nick November 11, at 9: Anonymous November 11, at 9: AEV November 11, at CC — I have never once said that I think loafers and suits are appropriate aside from casual, cotton suits.
Christian November 11, at But we knew that. Carmelo November 11, at Andy H November 11, at I absolutely agree with you, Christian. E November 11, at AEV November 11, at 1: Andy H November 11, at 1: It is definitely something to celebrate. Taliesin November 11, at 3: But at the very least he is a fan of the OCBD, whether or not he wears his with suits: RJG November 11, at 4: MAC November 11, at 5: Mason November 11, at 5: AEV November 11, at 6: Wyllys November 11, at 6: Ray November 11, at 7: Carmelo November 11, at 7: Mason November 11, at 7: AEV The following is from one of many dictionaries with materially identical definitions; look at the second meaning.
DCG November 11, at 7: RJG November 11, at 8: AEV The point was, of course, that not just my Dad did it. M Arthur November 11, at 8: AJC November 11, at 8: Ryan November 12, at 1: November 12, at 4: November 12, at 7: AEV November 12, at 8: DCG, SE, and others: Malvernlink November 12, at 8: Camper November 12, at 8: AEV November 12, at 9: Christian November 12, at 9: CC — To be sure, I am certain about my opinion.
Andy H November 12, at 9: MAC November 12, at Rules are personal things, like do you put your shoes on last or your trousers. Erik November 12, at Mike H November 12, at Don November 12, at And I thought I had a problem with having too much time on my hands. Lando November 12, at 6: Also, Do a Google image search of Warren Buffet, who wears a non-casual suit everyday and low and behold, in button-down collar shirts, almost exclusively!
OK, let me drop some truth on this discussion. November 12, at In my case, absolutely true. Is this supposed to be an insult?
Henry November 12, at M Arthur November 12, at Wikipedia, not the be all, end all, but note the following when describing a button down shirt: November 13, at 7: Does this mean I may wear my liberal-artsy button down shirt with pride? RJG November 13, at 9: Mason November 13, at RJG I take a different view. RJG November 13, at 1: Mason November 13, at 3: Oh, yea, button down shirts.
RJG November 13, at 3: Mason We agree about a lot of things. Mason November 13, at 4: Diddy said that she was in the studio working with producers Kanye West and Pharrell Williams on her second album. The song was released on November 13, ,  and peaked at eighty-five on the Canadian Hot  and fifty-two in the United Kingdom. And it's definitely a sensual album". All three singles failed to chart in the United States.
After several delays, it was announced in December that Cassie had signed a new record deal with Interscope Records. She has recently told her Twitter followers that she is still in the studio recording for her album. Mitchell said that she was taking her time over the album because she is keen for "it to be something that people are going to respect". Cassie released the single, " King of Hearts ", which was released in the United States on February 14, , along with the official music video.
She concluded the performance with a brief dance number set to the Kanye West remix of the song, along with four dancers. In July , Cassie announced in a letter to her fans that she had been working simultaneously on her album and a new mixtape titled RockaByeBaby. In March , Cassie's boyfriend, rapper Diddy announced he would return to producing and revealed he would be producing songs for Cassie's second studio album.
Released on March 11, , the Billie Woodruff directed film, stars Cassie alongside Terrence J who plays Charlie, a successful playboy who doesn't believe in love until he crosses paths with the sexy Eva Cassie. Her voice has "character and ability". Cassie also refers to herself as a "die-hard Janet Jackson fan", continuing to say "I'd love to emulate Janet Jackson's career—totally, Janet Jackson is an incredible and fantastic, from her moves to her voice".
Cassie is known for being a style icon due to her "edgy style"  and "feminine" and "sophisticated" fashion. Cassie is also known for setting the trend among women of shaving their hair, after Cassie shaved hers in influenced by punk. Cassie had been in a long term relationship with Diddy from to From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. This is the latest accepted revision , reviewed on 17 October Cassie Ventura Cassie at the premiere of Step Up 2: The Streets in February Retrieved April 18, Retrieved October 2, Archived from the original on June 17, Retrieved December 16, Archived from the original on July 20, Archived from the original on May 3, Retrieved August 31, Retrieved December 16, — via YouTube.
Retrieved February 8, Archived from the original on August 30, Retrieved August 13, Retrieved March 26, Retrieved July 19, Retrieved September 20, The Daily Free Press. Archived from the original on November 25,
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